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OpenOffice – A House of Sand

Written by Keith Curtis on . Posted in News, opensource, Software

“When Apache foundation released OpenOffice 3.4, many people wondered what is the point of OpenOffice existence, and what is, or what should be the current relation with LibreOffice. Unixmen came in contact with the people behind the project, and did an attempt to answer these questions through an interview with Rob Weir.

It seems that many things remained unclear, or somewhat vague, so what about some more food for thought regarding this matter?

“After the Software Wars” author, Keith Curtis, stepped in to write an article about what is going on with OpenOffice model of development and management. Keith was working in the development of Microsoft Office, and his work has been published in the New York Times, PC World and Linux Magazine among others.”

A House of Sand

The free software community is an amazing thing, but it is also frustrating sometimes because groups make key wrong decisions up front that doom their project no matter how hard they work. Google’s Knol is an example where much work went wasted because their leaders didn’t realize their project would eventually fail, though they managed to convince many naïve people in the meanwhile. For an example in another industry, you can look at Blu-Ray versus HD-DVD: there were lots of smart people, money, and plans. Unfortunately, billions of dollars were wasted and everyone suffered (including those on the side of Blu-Ray) because they made a key mistake.

When the Apache OpenOffice team inside Oracle was disbanded, primarily because of the success of LibreOffice, it became logical to me that the trademark should be handed over to LibreOffice, and all interested parties should join up there. It didn’t make sense to incubate another new team when LibreOffice had just built everything they needed and recruited most of the interested third-parties. Furthermore, the Apache proposal would be unable to take code from LibreOffice because their policies forbid copyleft. Given such a proposal, it would have been appropriate to look at the work LibreOffice was doing. If Apache found they wanted 99% of LibreOffice changes, that is useful data to let them know if their plans would hurt their efforts. Unfortunately, they didn’t learn very many facts about LibreOffice. They think about it like tomato sauce.

I have been collecting a list of reasons why the incubation project was a bad idea. You can read it here. Apache claims to be a meritocratic organization, but none of the feedback from the LibreOffice community was considered. The plan that was adopted is the same as what was first announced, in spite of the many objections. In addition to the question of whether the Apache OO fork is a good idea, there is an additional question of why did Apache ignore the complaints?

When Mark Shuttleworth forked Debian to create Ubuntu, he did it because he wanted to add features like 6-month release cycles, which Debian didn’t currently support. We can argue about whether Mark could have done his work directly in Debian, but at least he had things he wanted. One year into it to their incubation, Apache claims LibreOffice lacks diversity, but they can’t explain what it is missing and why they should exist.

Some compare the OO / LO situation to AbiWord, or iWork. These comparisons are an attempt to distract and confuse because the code and heritage are so different. Some suggest that if people didn’t like the Microsoft Office monopoly, they shouldn’t like to have “just” LibreOffice either. Of course, the biggest difference between these two projects is that LibreOffice is free. To equate the lack of customizability inherent in proprietary software to the free LibreOffice is close to a lie.

Some defend the current fork today by trying to get people to think about how you can never build a spaghetti sauce that is satisfying to everyone. This is a valid point for certain markets, but it is irrelevant to software, especially a project like LibreOffice. Would anyone believe that Firefox should  never be able to render all websites? LibreOffice is a product that lets you build custom things. Every character, picture and formula you insert makes this spaghetti sauce more to your liking.

In addition to the fact that LibreOffice lets you create custom documents, it also lets you create custom templates, customize the keystrokes and toolbars, create macros, install new extensions, etc. You can even add new features or download the code and run your own private version. LibreOffice itself is adding new features every day. Every time you add a feature, you are generally enabling a product to support new scenarios and users that it didn’t previously. And often these features are customizable. It is nonsensical to compare spaghetti sauce to LibreOffice.

Furthermore, there is a contradiction in this analogy. On the one hand, Apache has invited everyone in LibreOffice to join their community. On the other hand, they claim LibreOffice is not diverse, and there needs to be separate teams. You can bet that if everyone in LibreOffice quit and decided to join Apache, they would not mention the sauce analogy.

Apache suggests that there is good collaboration between AOO and LibreOffice. However, this ignores that the separate social structures are a form of social engineering that cannot be fixed by attempting to be friendly.

Apache wants people to spend time thinking about how LibreOffice is tomato sauce, so I suggest in response spending time thinking about how Apache OpenOffice (incubating) is a house of sand. The future is impossible to predict. However, I can suggest that it would be possible to quickly and cheaply merge these two organizations and fix the flawed social engineering.

About Keith Curtis

Keith Curtis worked as a programmer at Microsoft for 11 years, and then wrote a book about Linux. He is currently making a movie loosely based on it. You can learn about it on his website.

For questions please refer to our Q/A forum at : http://ask.unixmen.com

  • Michael Meeks

    Nice article, beautiful artwork. One complaint – I suspect that equating Rob Weir’s thoughts with Apache policy is not so far; Apache have a number of really worthwhile projects which I for one have no quarrel with.

  • Michael Meeks

    Nice article, beautiful artwork. One complaint – I suspect that equating Rob Weir’s thoughts with Apache policy is not so far; Apache have a number of really worthwhile projects which I for one have no quarrel with.

  • Michael Meeks

    Nice article, beautiful artwork. One complaint – I suspect that equating Rob Weir’s thoughts with Apache policy is not so far; Apache have a number of really worthwhile projects which I for one have no quarrel with.

  • http://www.deekshith.in/ Deekshith Allamaneni

    Agree completely with this article. Apache foundation should realize that and try to merge with Libre-Office.

  • http://www.deekshith.in/ Deekshith Allamaneni

    Agree completely with this article. Apache foundation should realize that and try to merge with Libre-Office.

  • http://www.deekshith.in/ Deekshith Allamaneni

    Agree completely with this article. Apache foundation should realize that and try to merge with Libre-Office.

  • Bob

    You really misunderstood the sauce analogy. The documents being created using office suites aren’t the sauces, it’s the office suites themselves. One size doesn’t fit all.

    “Some defend the current fork today by trying to get people to think
    about how you can never build a spaghetti sauce that is satisfying to
    everyone. This is a valid point for certain markets, but it is
    irrelevant to software, especially a project like LibreOffice.”

    I couldn’t disagree more. Of course it’s relevant to software. Vi vs Emacs, LibreOffice vs Calligra, Audacity vs Ardour, Kdenlive vs Cinelerra, Fedora vs Red Hat, Linux vs BSD … all examples where each project satisfies different people’s tastes, and no matter how open your software is or how many hundreds of talented coders you have hacking away you will still struggle to please everyone.

    That being said, I have no interest in OpenOffice and I’m excited to watch LO improve.

    • http://twitter.com/keithccurtis Keith Curtis

      FreeBSD exists and that is fine, but the Linux kernel supports many more scenarios. FreeBSD’s existence is not evidence that the Linux kernel is missing any features / diversity. Are you aware of anything? It is just history and inertia. In any case, I’ve nothing against FreeBSD. This is a discussion about OpenOffice and LibreOffice.

      Your other examples are also irrelevant for various reasons.

  • http://twitter.com/ifuckyourmind the queer podshot

    most people with non-tech backgrond are just confused but don’t care about names. I just tell my Linux users that OpenOffice is now “called LibreOffice and has a new logo”. That works. 

    • gigarath5

      Whatever gets them to use Libre. 

  • ben

    “This is [...] irrelevant to
    software”

    *FACEPALM*

    I guess this is why Microsoft hired you as a lowly programming slave, and not as a software architect who gets to make any real decisions.

    Fact is, it is *extremely* relevant to software.

    Software can *not* please everyone and can *not* excel at every usecase/workflow simply by giving customization options to power-users and “adding new features every day”.

    The quality of a software products lies not in the sheer sum of its technical features (actually-existing or theoretically-possible-to-add), but rather in how well it is carefully designed to handle its target usecases/workflows in an efficient and user-friendly manner.

    Different usecases, different preferences, etc. often warrant completely different approaches (not just some customization settings).

    Also, software projects need to make compromises all the time…
     - Feature-richness vs. lightweightness.
     - Newbie-friendliness vs. power-user-pleasing
     - Security vs. performance.
     - Flexibility vs. focus and convenience.
     - Tight integration vs. portability.
     - …
    It would be foolish to believe that there could exist a “one true software suite” for a particular use-case, that could make all those subjective decisions in a way that pleases all users.

    So there is *every* reason for multiple free Office Suits to exist, and be allowed to diverge from one another in healthy competition.

    “Would anyone believe
    that Firefox should  never be able to render all websites?”

    Pure strawman, like most of your “analogies”. No-one suggested anything even remotely comparable to “never be able to render all websites”.

    Instead, the relevant question – transposed onto Firefox – would be: “Would anyone believe that there is no room whatsoever, for other open-source browsers to exist which are different from Firefox?”

    The success of Opera, Google Chrome, and many others suggest that there is.
    Each of them looks/feels/behaves differently. Each of them has made different choices on how many features to cram into the default UI, how highly to value lightweightness/portability, which work-flows to optimize for, etc. – and consequently, each of them has found a different user base.

    You haven’t named a single argument for why this should be any different with Office/Productivity Suits.

    • ben

      PS: While only time will tell how exactly LO and OO will diverge (and hence fulfill different usecases/workflows/preferences), the latter already has one thing going for it right now: A non-evil license.

      WebKit would never have become the popular, ubiquitous browser framework
      that it is today, if it had been confined by a strong-copyleft license
      like the GPL.

    • http://twitter.com/keithccurtis Keith Curtis

      Don’t make it about my Microsoft experiences, I’m only writing things down and you don’t know what you are talking about.

      I agree software cannot please everyone. However, the idea of merging OO and LO is not like including a bicycle with every television. These projects have very shared feature sets, heritage, users, etc.

      My Firefox analogy was imperfect, I agree. However, unlike their analogy, it was just one sentence and a stepping stone to the idea that their analogy doesn’t make sense for creative products.

      The point is that Firefox is essentially limitless in its ability to have a customizable experience. This makes it very different from spaghetti sauce. Create HTML, or create a website, or whatever. Of course, this codebase might not run on iPods, or have other problems, but for the typical user, it enables infinite richness. And LibreOffice is much richer than Firefox in being able to create spreadsheets, etc.

      This is not about Google Chrome, etc. Each situation needs to be looked at differently. Sometimes it makes sense to put someone in jail, and sometimes it does not, and you need to look at the specifics to decide. You can accuse me of using analogies, but I don’t use them on the key topics at hand!

      If you think copyleft is evil, you are confused. This restriction allows a free program to stay free. The freedom you care about is the freedom to have a proprietary future. BTW, your history of Webkit has rosy glasses: it was a mess for a long time. The KTHML developers said their relationship with Apple was a “bitter failure.” This isn’t about WebKit either.

      • ben

        “If you think copyleft is evil, you are confused. This restriction allows a free program to stay free. The freedom you care about is the freedom to have a proprietary future.”

        Ah I made a mistake – please ignore what I wrote about the licensing issue, I was under the impression that LibreOffice was GPL, but it is actually LPGL which I think is an acceptable compromise.

        I still think you’re very wrong about dismissing the value of diversity among free software.
        The fact that LO and OO have started out with “very shared feature sets, heritage, users, etc.” doesn’t mean that they can’t slowly diverge to fulfill different user tastes, or optimize for different workflows, or make different choices along all the other differentiation criteria I mentioned in my comment above.
        Users can decide for themselves which of the two they like more, and this “competition” will give each of the two projects constructive feedback on the popularity of changes they’re implementing.
        I.e. if it were only one project, and it decides to revamp the user interface, all users would be stuck with it even if they hated it, and the developers wouldn’t even realize. If (like it actually seems to be the case now) OpenOffice gives itself a new vision for how the user interface should be like in version 4, but LibreOffice sticks with the trusted old interface, then both will be able to see very easily how their decision turns out in terms of actual user popularity.

        • http://twitter.com/keithccurtis Keith Curtis

          If you think GPL is evil, your guideposts for good and evil are out of whack. Compare GPL to the evil that is proprietary software.

          Yes, diversity is a good thing. However, you can do diversity within a team. Debian supports multiple desktop environments. The Linux kernel supports multiple file systems.

          We are one year into this project and some claim that they need more diversity than LibreOffice provides, but when asked to explain, they talk only in generalities and hypotheticals. No one inside LibreOffice is complaining and upset with their UI changes. Etc.

          BTW, Microsoft would love for this mess to continue. When OO / LO are fighting amongst themselves, and not combining their resources, they are not focusing on Office. So you might have some good points, but you’ve got the big picture wrong.

          • gigarath5

            I hate to spread conspiracy theories, but it sounds to me like Microsoft might be the one backing Open Office.org just for this very reason. 

  • Hilare

     
    Spreading smear and fear about its concurrent, that is all that libreoffice is able to do since its very beginning. Someone is able to see any concrete proposition here ? No, there is none, libreoffice is only whining about something it can’t and will never have, the brand name. And to illegitimately claim for it, one more time libreoffice offers no vision on the functional or technical future of its office suite, quite the contrary the only thing they can do is bad mouthing on a well respected Open Source organization: Apache.

    Is libreoffice “successful” ? Not at all. Just look on the numbers, provided from cnet.com, but other downloaders offers completely similar numbers:

    download.cnet.com/windows/office-suites/?tag=mncol%3Bsort&rpp=30&sort=popularity

    - Regarding one platform (Windows, 95% of market share is meaningful enough ;-) ) and the number of download per week (*): OpenOffice is downloaded 26.500 (rounded) times each week, versus libreoffice downloaded 1000 (rounded) times each week. No need to be a math genius to understand that for each libreoffice installation/upgrade, there is more than 26 OpenOffice installation/upgrade… But despite the obvious _failure_ of libreoffice, we continue to see unfounded astro-turfing about a hypothetical success of it ;-)

    (*)Note: total download is not meaningful here, OpenOffice > 4,670,000 versus libreoffice > 53.000 ; because OpenOffice is far older than libreoffice, hence the total download is logically superior. Sure, with 1000 (libreoffice) download per week versus 26.500 (OpenOffice), libreoffice will never reach the total download number of OpenOffice ;-)

    I don’t care about the fact that libreoffice is already a dead project, but i care about the deadly path every (or nearly every) distros had done, nonetheless by choosing the dead libreoffice as the default office suite, but more by removing the _successful_ OpenOffice from their repositories.

    That said, if libreoffice really wants to reverse its predicable deadly future, may i suggest its team concentrates on architecture and programming rather than useless astro-turfing ;-)

    • Rtfazeberdee

      I dont download Libreoffice from that site or the official libreoffice site so the numbers you quote are complete pants.  You sound just like a troll. 

    • http://twitter.com/keithccurtis Keith Curtis

      You said so many wrong things in there I don’t know where to start. So how about: did you read my full list of reasons why this fork is a bad idea? A number of the points you made I have already refuted there, one year ago.

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DB Griffin

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Larry Page is not being completely honest! The manner in which the PRISM program/project works does not need access from company administrators or owners, so called “direct access”; the access to the information is already there. These tech company CEOs take for granted the actual intelligence of most end users of their products. All it takes is a little digging and reading to go from ignorant to informed on these things especially on exactly how the internet works/functions in the U.S.A. I find Larry Page’s remarks just as laughable as Al Gore’s claim to “inventing” the internet/world wide web!

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